Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

34

The night I decided my C.O. was an apostate

by Olin Moyles Ghost in

jw
friends

the following took place several years ago in a congregation in the united states.

we had this circuit overseer who was a real piece of work.

40-ish mts grad, i believe.

Olin Moyles Ghost

The following took place several years ago in a congregation in the United States.

We had this Circuit Overseer who was a real piece of work. 40-ish MTS grad, I believe. Well, Mrs. Ghost and I were attending a congregation that had some...well...interesting personalities. In particular, two families had serious issues with each other. To further complicate matters, both families were very active in the congregation (pioneers, elders, servants, you get the picture). Fortunately, we were able to stay out of the fray, but Mrs. Ghost and I knew everything that was going on between these families. People like to talk, you know? Honestly, everyone involved in that situation just needed to grow up.

Anyway, when the C.O. comes, he gets an ear full from both families. When the time came for his Tuesday night service talk, we were expecting the usual routine (go out in service more, start studies with the Knowledge book, etc.). Well, we could not have been more wrong. Instead, he proceeds to spend 45 minutes on stage describing the situation between the families--without names, of course--and taking sides with one of the families against the other! I was blown away. I thought I had seen a lot in this organization, but had never seen anything like this.

But that wasn't all. During his talk he mentioned that sometimes when friends want to decide whether to participate in an activity that is a matter of conscience, they do research in the Society's publications. He said that sometimes, when elders counsel friends about so-called conscience matters, the friends will show the elders the research they have done. Well, he said that is not appropriate! Rather, the friends should just do what the elders say, regardless of what they find in their research in the Society's publications.

I could not believe what I was hearing. I whispered to Mrs. Ghost "are we in a Baptist church?" (no offense to any Baptists here) At this point, I wanted to walk out of that meeting immediately. I was shocked. He was saying not to do personal study, but just to follow the consciences of men. This went directly against my JW upbringing and what I understood my religion to stand for. Now bear in mind that at this point, I had zero doubt that this was God's organization, and this talk did not change that feeling. In fact, I told Mrs. Ghost on the way home from the meeting that night that I thought the C.O. was an apostate.

I did not begin examining my religion with an open mind until several years after this night. But, in retrospect, this talk opened my eyes just a bit. And every little bit counts.

30

When, if ever, did you start caring about POLITICS?

by Open mind in

jw
friends

i've said a few times on here that i'm 99% mentally free of jwism, or something similar.

but i think i may need to back that number down just a bit.. i now believe that this world is all we've got and that,collectively, it matters what we as a species do on this orb if we want to continue to spread our dna indefinitely.

(some would argue that human extinction would be a good thing, but i'm not in that camp.

Olin Moyles Ghost

This ghost LOVES some politics!

I've been interested in politics since I was about 8 years old. It was the 1984 US presidential election: Reagan/Bush Sr. vs. Mondale/Ferraro. I was hoping Mondale would win because Geraldine Ferraro would have been the first woman vice president in US history. Of course, Reagan thoroughly dominated Mondale and easily won a second term. Ever since then, I've leaned Democratic. I was glad to see Clinton win both terms, though I admit to liking Ross Perot in '92 until I realized he was nuts. The 2000 election infuriated me, and the 2004 election was even worse.

I was thinking that 2008 was looking good for the dems, but now that McCain has all but locked up the GOP nomination, I'm not so confident. In particular, I'm not sure how many American "swing voters" and "independents" are going to vote for a woman or a black over a white male war hero.

9

An idea for those with "believing" mates

by Olin Moyles Ghost in

in my short time on this board, i have noticed that there are many of us whose spouses do not yet share our balanced perception of the society.

the following suggestion is something i use with mrs. ghost from time to time.

as always, your mileage may vary.

Olin Moyles Ghost

In my short time on this board, I have noticed that there are many of us whose spouses do not yet share our balanced perception of the Society. The following suggestion is something I use with Mrs. Ghost from time to time. As always, your mileage may vary.

As has been posted previously, Google Books (http://books.google.com/) has a number of the old publications available in PDF format. Google Books has such classics as "Millions Now Living Will Never Die," "The Harp of God," and (my personal favorite) "The Finished Mystery." Yes, the 7th volume of Studies in the Scriptures, Pastor Russell's posthumous work, the (partial) cause of the Judge's incarceration, is available for free in PDF format. Here's the URL: http://books.google.com/books?id=dDQSOQV2RBIC.

So, you may ask, what does The Finished Mystery have to do with helping believing spouses to realize the truth about the organization? Well, as you may or may not know, The Finished Mystery includes a verse-by-verse discussion of Revelation...just like the Revelation Climax book that we are studying in the book study.

As part of my preparation for the book study, I take a few minutes to see what The Finished Mystery says about the verses we are covering each week. For example, we recently covered Rev. 14:20 about the winepress of the anger of God and the blood being up to the bridles of the horses for 1,600 furlongs. Well, you probably were not aware that the "winepress" represents none other than The Finished Mystery itself. Yes, God's winepress is a book. Wait, it gets better. The 1,600 (though The Finished Mystery uses 1200 for some reason) furlongs represents the distance from Scranton to Brooklyn. If you don't believe me, look on page 230.

Anyway, I enjoy showing tidbits like that to Mrs. Ghost. She thinks it is interesting and makes comments like "we still don't know what that means, do we?" Once in a while, I remind her that we teach that Jesus inspected the temple in 1918. And, this is what he saw the WTS teaching when he supposedly picked them.

Good grief. I just read what I wrote. How did my parents ever get suckered in by this nonsense? It's embarrassing.

21

IF JW'S COULD VOTE...

by writetoknow in

would they vote as a group for republicans, democrats, or independant?

and who would the society encourage them to vote for?

Olin Moyles Ghost

If JWs voted as a bloc (like the Mormons do--did you see that Romney won 90% of the Republican vote in Utah?), they would have some clout. For example, if the JWs in Florida had voted for Gore in 2000, no recount would have been necessary. There may never have been a "President George W. Bush." Think about that for a minute...

In my experience, the whole "political neutrality" meme is bogus. Lots of witnesses--at least ones that I know--have strong political views. Of course, it may take a few beers to get it out of them, but they have opinions. Of course, it's not uncommon for one to say--after bashing Bush for 30 minutes: "well, that's why we need God's kingdom."

37

Please allow me to introduce myself...

by Olin Moyles Ghost in

jw
friends

i'm a man of neither wealth nor taste (my apologies to messrs. jagger, richards, et al.

anyway, i have lurked here off-and-on for a while.

as i stated a couple of days ago, i am impressed with the level of knowledge of many of the posters on this board.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Thanks again for all the comments. I apologize for not replying personally to each one, but I'm a busy Ghost.

By the way, edmond dantes, I have been on the other side for quite some time. Since you asked, I'll tell you. It's a soap opera up here. You wouldn't believe the way "Judge" Rutherford and Maria Russell go at each other over who the Faithful and Discreet Slave is. The Judge is all "it's me"; but Maria is like "oh no you didn't...it's Chuck." And they keep going back and forth like that. It's a total cat-fight.

97

Thoughts on Rush Limbaugh

by dawg in

jw
friends

while watching the network's coverage on the election, i kept noticing how the announcers kept talking about what impact the rush limbaugh show might have on the republican vote... they felt his show might sway the votes away from mccain... .

now, all you conservatives out there, isn't it one of the biggest embarassments you can ever have, to know that rush limbaugh can have an effect on how your party votes?

if i knew that people thinking like rush limbaugh were voting for my candidate, that would automatically make me vote the other way.. i mean honestly, how can you not be embarrased that your party holds a man such as rush limbaugh in high esteem?

Olin Moyles Ghost

I'm not a Limbaugh fan, but will give credit where it's due. The man is a master propagandist. Makes the GB look like rank amateurs.

But there is one thing for which I will always resent him. Whenever I am discussing music with someone and mention that I'm a Rush fan, I have to explain that I mean the BAND, not the radio commentator.

37

Please allow me to introduce myself...

by Olin Moyles Ghost in

jw
friends

i'm a man of neither wealth nor taste (my apologies to messrs. jagger, richards, et al.

anyway, i have lurked here off-and-on for a while.

as i stated a couple of days ago, i am impressed with the level of knowledge of many of the posters on this board.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Thanks for all the responses. Sure, "OMG" is fine.

A little more about my situation. I am still in "good standing" in the congregation. I've had serious doubts for over a year, but play my cards close to my chest around witness friends and family. As many of you know from personal experience, there is a lot to lose and I am not ready to lose it all.

I have a wife and a young child. Mrs. Ghost and I have a great relationship. She was also raised as a witness. She is what I call a "liberal" witness. She thinks that a lot of the rules are unscriptural (e.g., birthdays, private intimate matters between married couples). But, she still thinks that this is the closest thing to the truth out there. For example, she's really big on the fact that JWs don't go to war. Fortunately, she listens to my heretical views about the FDS and actually agrees with me on a lot of points. I don't tell her what to think and I don't press her too hard. I want her to come to her own conclusions. She's a smart woman.

Here's one more issue that led to my doubting "the truth": False Prophecy. The organization attempts to escape liability for false prophecy by saying that it doesn't claim to be infallible. When you compare that excuse to the language used in building up the 1914, 1925, and even 1975 dates, that excuse rings hollow. It seems overly formalistic, even legalistic. Also their excuse about Jesus' disciples having erroneous expectations about the restoration of the kingdom to Israel doesn't hold water. Specifically, the Bible does not state that the disciples went around teaching this incorrect understanding as doctrine and shunning anyone who refused to believe it. The analogy simply does not fit.

37

Please allow me to introduce myself...

by Olin Moyles Ghost in

jw
friends

i'm a man of neither wealth nor taste (my apologies to messrs. jagger, richards, et al.

anyway, i have lurked here off-and-on for a while.

as i stated a couple of days ago, i am impressed with the level of knowledge of many of the posters on this board.

Olin Moyles Ghost

I'm a man of neither wealth nor taste (my apologies to Messrs. Jagger, Richards, et al.)

Anyway, I have lurked here off-and-on for a while. As I stated a couple of days ago, I am impressed with the level of knowledge of many of the posters on this board. It's quite a resource.

It appears to be a tradition on this board for new posters to introduce themselves. I do not enjoy talking about myself, so this will be short. I will outline the two issues that made me start questioning the organization.

I was raised as a JW and my family was and is prominent in the congregation and circuit (father is a long-time elder and assembly speaker, etc.). I began to doubt the organization after seeing first-hand the arbitrary character of decisions made at the local and circuit level. I remember thinking that every time God has used an organization, it has turned bad or apostatized. So, I wondered, could the Society have done the same thing? Could it have "gone bad"?

I have also had a difficult time reconciling the "life-saving" and "urgent" nature of the preaching work. As I asked on this board a couple days ago, I did not understand how the end could come before billions of people received a witness. Also, on a related note, I did not see why the ministry was even necessary if Jesus was going to judge hearts at Armageddon. The answer I get from witnesses is that the preaching work is a test for US (i.e., the JWs) to see if we'll do it. I just have a hard time thinking God wants to give us busywork.

OK, enough about me.

26

Question: Can the end come before a witness is given in China, etc.?

by Olin Moyles Ghost in

i have enjoyed reading this board off-and-on over the past several months.

the collective knowledge on this board is impressive.

anyway, to my question...

Olin Moyles Ghost

Thanks for the responses.

I knew there had to be a loophole. After all, the end is "just around the corner."

Donkey: Great points regarding population growth and JW growth.

I must say that I still cannot understand how JWs can believe that the preaching work is so important and is a "life-saving work" when they are satisfied with God destroying 3 Billion + who have not tasted their "waters of truth." Just another example of cognitive dissonance, I guess.

26

Question: Can the end come before a witness is given in China, etc.?

by Olin Moyles Ghost in

i have enjoyed reading this board off-and-on over the past several months.

the collective knowledge on this board is impressive.

anyway, to my question...

Olin Moyles Ghost

Hello. I have enjoyed reading this board off-and-on over the past several months. The collective knowledge on this board is impressive. Anyway, to my question... It is common knowledge among witnesses that there are large populations that have not received the "good news." The first one that comes to mind is China. Also, there is effectively no JW presence in most of India and the Muslim world. So, China, India, and the Muslim world adds up to 3 billion people or so. Thus, around half the world's population has not received the "good news." My question is how can JWs believe that the end can come at any time? Doesn't Matt. 24:14, Mark 13:10, etc., say the good news has to be preached in all the earth? Well, they're about halfway there. And, if it really doesn't matter whether those 3 billion people receive the kingdom message, why is the preaching work so important? Any insight is appreciated.